[conda] Does anyone here understand the interrelationship between the different conda channels?

[Ariel Balter]

I'm very confused, as I think many are, about the relationship (or lacks
thereof) between the various *conda *channels.

The only real attempt to answer this question is this single SO question

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39857289/should-conda-or-conda-forge-be-used-for-python-environments

This is my current understanding:

1) The *anaconda *channel is maintained by continuum analytics and strives
to provide an integrated toolset to support scientific and analytical work.
The anaconda channel is open sourced, however continuum analytics is a
private company.

2) The *conda-forge* channel is a completely community maintained
collection of recipes that strives to provide an alternative to anaconda
with at least as many packages. I don't fully understand what they see as
their mission unless they disagree with some package or version choices *anaconda
*is making. If anaconda is open source, then why doesn't *conda-forge*
simply submit recipe pull requests to that channel?

3) The *r* channel is an r-specific sub-channel of the *anaconda *channel
supported by continuum analytics. Why is there a separate r channel?

4) I have no idea what the *defaults *channel is and why it exists.

5) The *bioconda *channel strives to make all *bioconductor *packages
installable through conda.

Also:

* bioconda says to use:
- bioconda
- conda-forge
- defaults

* However, some say that the *defaults *channel is incompatible with
*conda-forge*

* I think I have also read that the *r *and *conda-forge* channels are
incompatible

* It would also seem to make sense that the *anaconda *and *conda-forge*
channels could conflict

* However, *bioconda *conflicts with *r* and *anaconda *(and perhaps
defaults)


Somehow with all of this information, I am supposed to figure out how old
Susie is.

I asked this question to someone who frequently contributes to conda-forge,
and got some answers, but I don't completely understand them or feel they
adequately answer my questions.

What does the community say?

[Ariel Balter]

I'm very confused, as I think many are, about the relationship (or lacks thereof) between the various conda channels.

The only real attempt to answer this question is this single SO question
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39857289/should-conda-or-conda-forge-be-used-for-python-environments

This is my current understanding:

1) The anaconda channel is maintained by continuum analytics and strives to provide an integrated toolset to support scientific and analytical work. The anaconda channel is open sourced, however continuum analytics is a private company.

*The anaconda channel isn't something Anaconda Inc, has ever promoted
anywhere. You should not use it.*

2) The conda-forge channel is a completely community maintained collection of recipes that strives to provide an alternative to anaconda with at least as many packages. I don't fully understand what they see as their mission unless they disagree with some package or version choices anaconda is making. If anaconda is open source, then why doesn't conda-forge simply submit recipe pull requests to that channel?

*It is difficult to scale our limited resources to build the number of
packages people want, therefore this effort naturally needs to be
crowdsourced. That's basically what conda-forge is. We now use them as
the upstream for our recipes and hope to bring them as close as we can
get to being binary compatible. That effort is a bit stalled at
present.*

3) The r channel is an r-specific sub-channel supported by continuum analytics. Why is there a separate r channel?

*Why should there not be a separate channel for R and MRO? End-users
don't need to care. There's a lot of technical and workflow reasons
associated with this decision. It was like this when I got here too,
but again, I don't see why you care.*

4) I have no idea what the defaults channel is and why it exists.

*Defaults is a metachannel. A metachannel is an ordered (from the
solver's perspective) collection of channels. For us the important
channels in defaults are `main` (where C/C++/Python lives) and `r`.
This metachannel is what allows you to not care that R is in a
different channel.*

5) The bioconda channel strives to make all bioconductor packages installable through conda.

Also:

* bioconda says to use:

- bioconda
- conda-forge
- defaults

* However, you have said that the defaults channel is incompatible with conda-forge

* I think I have also read that the r and conda-forge channels are incompatible

* It would also seem to make sense that the anaconda and conda-forge channels could conflict

* However, bioconda conflicts with r and anaconda (and perhaps defaults)


*These are 3rd party endeavours completely free to make their own
decisions. If they give that channel ordering then maybe they know it
tends to work well in their use cases. I don't know, I don't use
bioconda nor conda-forge. All I can tell you is that you absolutely
should not mix C/C++ binaries or compiled python extension modules
from any Anaconda Defaults channel with either bioconda or
conda-forge. This has nothing to do with Anaconda Inc, though.*

Somehow with all of this information I am supposed to figure out how old Susie is.

*No idea what this means.
*

Can you provide some clarity?

*No idea.
*

[Sayth Renshaw]

Never really understood why users had to contribute to conda if the package
existed on pypi.

Couldn't there be a basic recipe to QA package requirements against conda
version requirements and if no conflict let conda return and install
package from pypi?

Of course with flag or warning that package is not anaconda maintained.

Sayth

Ariel, you should not have emailed me directly asking questions and you
should definitely not post private emails to mailing lists without asking
the permission of all people in the email.
I should not have to tell you this though.

Post by Ariel Balter
I'm very confused, as I think many are, about the relationship (or lacks thereof) between the various conda channels.
The only real attempt to answer this question is this single SO question
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39857289/should-conda-or-conda-forge-be-used-for-python-environments
1) The anaconda channel is maintained by continuum analytics and strives to provide an integrated toolset to support scientific and analytical work. The anaconda channel is open sourced, however continuum analytics is a private company.
*The anaconda channel isn't something Anaconda Inc, has ever promoted
anywhere. You should not use it.*
2) The conda-forge channel is a completely community maintained collection of recipes that strives to provide an alternative to anaconda with at least as many packages. I don't fully understand what they see as their mission unless they disagree with some package or version choices anaconda is making. If anaconda is open source, then why doesn't conda-forge simply submit recipe pull requests to that channel?
*It is difficult to scale our limited resources to build the number of
packages people want, therefore this effort naturally needs to be
crowdsourced. That's basically what conda-forge is. We now use them as
the upstream for our recipes and hope to bring them as close as we can
get to being binary compatible. That effort is a bit stalled at
present.*
3) The r channel is an r-specific sub-channel supported by continuum analytics. Why is there a separate r channel?
*Why should there not be a separate channel for R and MRO? End-users
don't need to care. There's a lot of technical and workflow reasons
associated with this decision. It was like this when I got here too,
but again, I don't see why you care.*
4) I have no idea what the defaults channel is and why it exists.
*Defaults is a metachannel. A metachannel is an ordered (from the
solver's perspective) collection of channels. For us the important
channels in defaults are `main` (where C/C++/Python lives) and `r`.
This metachannel is what allows you to not care that R is in a
different channel.*
5) The bioconda channel strives to make all bioconductor packages installable through conda.
- bioconda
- conda-forge
- defaults
* However, you have said that the defaults channel is incompatible with conda-forge
* I think I have also read that the r and conda-forge channels are incompatible
* It would also seem to make sense that the anaconda and conda-forge channels could conflict
* However, bioconda conflicts with r and anaconda (and perhaps defaults)
*These are 3rd party endeavours completely free to make their own
decisions. If they give that channel ordering then maybe they know it
tends to work well in their use cases. I don't know, I don't use
bioconda nor conda-forge. All I can tell you is that you absolutely
should not mix C/C++ binaries or compiled python extension modules
from any Anaconda Defaults channel with either bioconda or
conda-forge. This has nothing to do with Anaconda Inc, though.*
Somehow with all of this information I am supposed to figure out how old Susie is.
*No idea what this means.
*
Can you provide some clarity?
*No idea.
*
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[Ariel Balter]

@Michael -- as far as I understand (and have seen in my own use) conda
works well with pip. What is the distinction you are making?

[Ariel Balter]

Post by Ariel Balter
@Michael -- as far as I understand (and have seen in my own use) conda
works well with pip. What is the distinction you are making?

[Ariel Balter]

Hi Ray,

Sorry if I offended you. I removed your name from the comments you gave
me, so you and I are the only ones who could know that those were your
comments.

Because you provided some good points, some of which I did not fully
understand, I felt they would be a good jumping off point.

I emailed you directly because you contribute to many issues regarding
compatibility problems, and I could not think of a more proper way to pose
the question. It's not really a bug or a feature.

Only just a bit ago did I realize that the user forum would be a good place
to ask.

I do appreciate the effort you put into answering my questions.

Best,

Ariel